Josh 0:04 Friends and neighbors, you're listening to Portland from the left, my name is Josh, Piper 0:07 and my name is Piper. And this is our holiday special episode, we are just going to be us two, talking about ourselves, Josh 0:16 Piper said, we have to make this fun. And that's why it's named the holiday special episode. And fingers crossed at the end of it. There's a special song that I wrote to celebrate all the wonderful podcasters and streamers of the uprising. So if you stay through the podcast, through the fun of talking about ourselves, you might also get to hear that song, there's some possibility I didn't finish it. So if I didn't finish it, I'll let you know at the end. Piper 0:39 Or you'll cut this out. Josh 0:42 Or, yeah, I'll just cut this out. We're talking about ourselves. And the reason we're talking about ourselves because I felt like we should answer for ourselves. Most of our like, descriptive information are strings of text that I wrote to get the podcast out that neither of us really spent a lot of time thinking about like our about page and like, the description of the podcast and whatever. So I wanted a place to say like, this is like why we started the project, this is what we're doing. This is kind of what we hope to do. So to get started, I thought we could talk a little bit about our political backgrounds. I worked as a worship leader and doing other stuff at evangelical churches for a long time. And I was like, operating as as kind of the the left most most progressive person in those churches, usually, trying to kind of lead or lean the church left and trying to like, make the doors open for queer people or like, you know, rethink some of the things that churches doing with their money and stuff. And found myself like inside of large organizations trying to reform them and really, really unsuccessful. I literally just kept jumping from more like less and less conservative churches until I eventually just like, like, worked myself out of even being able to work with churches, Piper 1:52 how did spending years trying to push churches from within them, to the left, shape, how you think about making change now? Josh 2:00 one of the things I think I got from it was that sometimes like the change that I'm pushing for, and that I see as a clear, way forward, is--frequently it's not obvious, it's not clear to everyone else. And even more so than that there will be people in opposition, like direct thinking directly the opposite, realizing that I was like, trying to bring about things that people were like, that put me as an enemy to other people, even though we weren't outside of the context of these discussions, we weren't enemies. That helped me a lot, because I don't think that democracy and majority rule makes a whole lot of sense, maybe. And I don't, I don't know what that means, or why or how, like, at this point, I probably think it just means less power, less control over people, less people telling other people what to do less hierarchy. Because I don't think if we all make decisions together, they're frequently going to be good. So we need to be careful when we exert power over other people. It's not an easy way, or if for me, it wasn't successful at all, I saw like every single organization I left, they're worse off when I left, and the changes that I made inside were immediately gone when I was gone. Wow. And, and and not a lot of it was like big significant stuff. Like, you know, the places I was in were better while I was there, and they were worse when I was gone. So like, you know, the work meant something, but it also wasn't long lasting or that impactful. You know, over time, Piper 3:25 what did you do when you stopped being involved in churches, where did all that energy go? Josh 3:30 When I stopped being involved churches, I spent about six months in bed. And so that was like just a big emotional break. And then afterward, I was able to put a bunch of my time and energy into Sarah Iannarone's mayoral campaign. So just, you know, participating as a volunteer and taking photos and videos, sometimes stuff like that. And I think my thought at the time was that I could use kind of some of the energy that I was using at churches that I no longer was expanding there. And just shift that into political things. And it's definitely a very similar experience. The campaign gave me lots of autonomy within the things I was doing. And let me kind of work how I saw fit. Like I was producing some videos and stuff for them at the time. It was very agreeable to work with them. But I didn't have a lot of like, authority or whatever, obviously, because it's just a volunteer helping out with a few things. And it's not necessarily that nobody was listening to me, it's just like, you know, that wasn't really my role. And so I think what that helped me see more than anything was that I realized if I was working on behalf of a politician, that meant cosigning what they were doing, and I no longer am capable of doing that with any human being. Like reform inside the church was tough for me because I didn't actually have a lot of impact in a similar way having to cosign someone else meant that I was necessarily limited in what I was allowed to say sometimes and what I was like free to comment on or whatever. So not that anybody really told me what to say or like, no, like, scandal or anything, it's just mostly like realizing that if I'm going to be constantly saying, hey, go vote for this person, then everything they do during especially during that period, I am implicitly and sometimes explicitly cosigning and that doesn't, isn't going to work for me. Piper 5:17 Yeah, that's fair. Josh 5:19 And then the other big chunk of things that kind of form my activism and my participation in local politics is Anti Fascist research. And I started doing this while I was at, while I was working for churches, so a lot of it was like, I mean, like, just secretive or not very public, or whatever. And I started by watching other people and what they were doing what they were publishing, and then kind of doing a little bit of my own work, my own research. And a big thing that I'm bringing from from that stuff, is that I started to realize that the Anti Fascist work of documenting local, far right extremists was very, very similar to the work that I wanted to see, like a produced work of like connecting the dots between local politicians and the groups that support them, and the people that fund them and whatever. In my mind, that's the other leg. It's like, not wanting to cosign other people. And like, knowing that reform is difficult or impossible. And then, knowing that a lot of the work is like documenting things is pointing, pointing out connections more than anything. So that's kind of the three things that are in my head when I think about like my political activism and my history and stuff and what direction I'm going, like for you, what do you think like, where do you get started? When do you start thinking about like changing the world or like, affecting what's going on around you? That's right. I said, change the world Piper 6:39 Probably like always. Probably like, day one. Josh 6:43 Day one. No, this podcast was supposed to be about us, like not bigging ourselves up. Piper 6:49 No, but I was a very aggressive toddler. So I've been anti capitalist pretty much for as long as I've had politics that was kind of like my formational kind of stance. Probably, if I think back, it's, it's probably related to the fact that my sister's a union organizer. She's older than me, she's a half sister. And then it was like a punk. So it was just-- Josh 7:11 punk rock kids don't like money. Piper 7:12 So you know, I was I had to move a lot was relatively stable. But I had a single mom who was working class, so we never had money. And when I went to school, I like really learned what wealth was. Yeah, and I also, I went to a school where the motto was communism, atheism, free love. Like, that's the motto of the school. And I got there and everyone was a fucking neoliberal. Not everyone. There's some people that are fine. But yeah, yeah. So I um then when I went to, when I went to school, I kind of went with that in mind is like, that's what I wanted to kind of study, I want to figure out like, how to study anti-capitalism or how to study capitalism, really, to understand it better. Josh 7:59 Karl Marx didn't write anti capitalism. Yeah, Piper 8:01 I ended up studying sociology, I that ended up being like the tool that worked the best for how I thought about the world. I had sort of two personal experiences during that time, one of which was my sort of academic focus was on prisons. So I had a friend that, um, ended up getting involved in the prison system, for complicated reasons. I don't need to get into here, but it allowed me to see just a little bit behind it and like, see what was going on within them. And I just was like, No. It became like, sort of a thing I had to understand and learn about. So I worked on, I worked on that as what I wrote my thesis on the school I went to you write like, a full year long thesis. And I got to the end of it, you know, I learned so much I told everyone in my life was having to listen to me talk about prisons all the time. And a professor was like, you know, if you're gonna publish this, we really ought to think about XYZ. And I was just staring at her. And I was like, why? And I had reached the end of this, this whole experience and was like, Wait, this doesn't do anything at all. Like I learned so much like the learning part of it was so important to me. But there wasn't actually a next step for me to do anything on that route. And everything that I was working on was pointing me towards, like, academia, and I wasn't seeing academia, like actually do anything about the things I cared about, or it wasn't seeing a path for that, at least for me. And so that kind of just ended up being sort of like a dead end in the how side of it. And then the other thing that happened while I was in school, were the multiple students that I knew I was very good friends with their friends, two people died of heroin overdoses, and it's a very small school. So that's a large number of students to die while I was there, and I was involved in I got involved in a group called like students for more Sensible Drug Policy or something like that, what we were doing in our little group was more trying to move the school to prevent people from dying. And so one one stance we took this is like, there were like four of us or something, was we were trying to push the school to have good samaritan policies so that if students were potentially OD'ing like, they would feel safe calling the on campus security officers and they would like have Naloxone or something like that and no one would get in trouble. So like, if you just weren't sure what was going on? Like, we wanted to make sure like, no, just call somebody, like get emergency services Josh 10:43 you wanted to make make it safe so that people could get help. Yeah, Piper 10:46 yeah. And also, we wanted to get the safety officers like trained on naloxone, because at the time, it was really inaccessible. Um it was technically illegal to administer it another person, it was really complicated, because you didn't have the prescription. And it was like a prescription drug it was it was in a bad spot. But like, you could still have the, like, safety officers trained on how to do it, like so we were trying to get that. And the school not only did not do those things, they started cracking down on weed smoking, wow, it was a really dark example of like petitioning for help from the powerful and it going like completely the other way, I don't think it was like a reaction to what we were trying to push them to do. It was a reaction to the legal situation. But so that didn't work at all. But something that did work was we just like, bought a drug testing kit and put it in a locker and it just like people can test their drugs. So we just put it in a locker and distributed the code and it's like, okay, that's how you actually make people safer is you just do it. Josh 11:49 You got your prison abolition research and the paper and then oh, in your anti capitalist like framework, they can have you come in with it. Yeah, that's kind of how I got to prisons as well. Like it was actually paper about capitalism. It seems like that should have come from somewhere more substantive. Maybe I'm just like, imagining Piper 12:09 I think it was probably a mix of my sister. And like, I was into like crust punk bands. When I was like, 13. Josh 12:17 Listen, punk bands have their use. Okay. Piper 12:20 The union organizing stuff was definitely part of it as well. Josh 12:25 Now that we've talked a little bit, a little bit about a background just a little bit, hopefully less, I'm gonna edit. We've been talking for how long is it? Let me look. I'm looking at the numbers. Were 25 minutes in Piper. Okay, so a lot less than that less than 25 minutes. podcast listener, whatever you're looking at. That's how good of an editor I am. You're welcome. Anyway, the point is, the next question that I have written down is, why did we start a podcast? Do you remember the first question I asked you about our podcast? Piper 12:53 Yeah. So Josh, just DM me one day and he said, what are politics podcast about Portland be called? He did not ask me if we were doing a podcast. Josh 13:03 I just assumed you wanted to be on a podcast about politics with me. Why would you not want to, you know, raise your profile and become more well known within Portland as a leftist, with politics that are against business? Piper 13:16 Oh, god Josh 13:17 You're saying that like promoting yourself as like a personality to do politics? That wasn't part of your deal? Piper 13:23 Um, no, I actually just am really mad. And I just need to have a void to yell into and hopefully have some friends. Josh 13:32 I think one of the things. One of the things that may be a little bit confusing about our podcast is that normally podcasts are about promoting, particularly the people and also the podcast itself. There are two things that we don't care about. Number one, we do not care if you listen to number two, because we're not trying to gain power or political notoriety for either of us. We don't want jobs. We don't want elected positions. No, thank you. Piper has a career and works in that career does whatever Piper does. And Josh is an unemployed person right now, but makes videos and stuff for people and will find work eventually, hopefully, because you can only be unemployed for so long. My partner funds this, this our family, and then Piper and I fund this podcast independently, but like it's like 15 bucks a month or something. It's very cheap. And we're happy to do that. Right now. I don't know. We're not really making decisions for the future. That was a lot why did we start a podcast though Piper so it's not to get people who listen to the podcast necessarily, and it's not to become very wealthy political consultants or powerful politicians. So what are we doing here? Piper 14:38 Why is interesting? You're asking me because this is definitely a pitch you brought to me. Josh 14:46 I feel like asking you to repeat the pitch back to me. It's probably a little self indulgent on my part. Piper 14:51 Sure. No, oh, well, I'll tell you. What you told me that convinced me it was a good idea. Josh 14:58 Okay, Lay it on me. What did I say? Piper 14:59 You You pitched to me the idea that we're having all these great conversations with smart friends that we made, who we agree with on many things about the city, but that these conversations were all very ephemeral. And most of them are on Twitter, and they were on, you know, just on threads, they'd be these great detailed threads. And then people would be like, Oh, I don't know where that is, and kind of it would get lost to kind of the, the Twitter timeline. And so you were talking about, like, let's turn some of that into something that has a concrete place to live. Let's do like the same thing that same sort of deep dive into a topic with smart people that know about it. But give it a place to live. Josh 15:35 I'm filling, it was super smart of me to reach out to you in particular, because you just made that pitch better than I made it to the first time. I'm sure that it took me 30 minutes. I think I remember that phone call because I was pacing around my living room trying to explain to you why you needed to start a podcast. And I still wasn't convinced it was a podcast yet. I thought maybe it was like a like a Twitch live stream or like, I don't know what some other thing. Piper 15:58 I think at one point you you said we should call it like the Piper show or something. And I was like no no no Josh 16:03 because I didn't know what kind of person you are. So I was trying to say like, I could just be the producer, if you imagine yourself like if you if you could, if you could brand yourself and you wanted that because I wasn't necessarily against that for you. I just knew that wasn't me. And so those are some of our first conversations about this kind of stuff. And so I didn't know, I didn't know you were more like me, were you like, I don't give a fuck, if anybody knows my name, I literally could go like by a different name, that would actually probably have been much more Piper 16:27 I probably should have. Josh 16:28 We both thought about it. And we probably should have. But here we are now. You're welcome. Piper 16:34 And then I also really liked the opportunity to talk more deeply to people that I just thought were really smart and knew about an idea and ask them questions. Part of what I do just in my professional life is interview people. And so I really enjoy that I really enjoy just getting to just sit and learn about something that someone knows super well. Josh 16:56 They're not like theory, right? It's like practical stuff that we can maybe use to figure some things out. It's not necessarily about changing things, right. But we certainly would desire to change Portland for the better. And so like it's more like a some somewhere in the middle, where it's like a place to gather a place to learn a place to like connect the dots a little bit with the hope that lots of other podcasts would show up and do similar things or other shows and other publications and stuff. And that they would be the base level of a new understanding like a collective research apparatus almost right. Piper 17:35 I think part of the reason I think that is so important is because one of the tools that sort of like the political elite of Portland use to maintain power is sort of making it too complicated for people to understand and acting like, Oh, we're the experts, you need people that like know what they're doing. And I think it's really important to just demystify a lot of it, we can actually understand it. I'm not saying I'm an expert, like I said, but like I can actually if I spend the time with someone that knows about it, ask questions and learn about it to the extent that I can have an opinion about it. And I think everyone can, yeah, I think that if you're interested in it, that actually this stuff isn't that hard, you don't have to be an expert, you just have to have the time where someone has actually like gone through that bullshit and gotten rid of all the stuff that's supposed to make it confusing. Josh 18:21 Yeah, and I think anybody that's done any kind of deep research and anything that's complex knows that, like, you can't just like immediately understand things, but it's not impossible. It's not like a mountain you can't climb, right. And Piper 18:33 this is like our, you know, it's all of our city, like we can understand the goings on. Josh 18:39 So this is like a way this is kind of a base level, this is my bare minimum really, PDX from the left, that's like, we're starting there, we're just gonna start talking about some of the stuff start talking about some of these issues, get some of the smart people talking to each other, not us. Again, it's more about connecting the dots with other people with expertise. And you'll notice that a lot of our guests are anonymous, and that's part of kind of the project is that we're not promoting them. We're not bringing in politicians to do stump speeches and stuff. We're talking about the the systems and the platforms that keep the politicians in power. So it's necessary that like, we don't talk to people that might be like kind of framing things a particular way or giving to me Piper 19:18 to not have like too much of a stake in the system maintaining as is, Josh 19:23 right, we kind of need to be speaking to people that are open to change, I'd say that we're not necessarily asking for everybody to be a hardcore revolutionary, but you got to like at least be signed up for the idea that revolution could be a help. So earlier, I was talking a little bit about about connecting the dots between a bunch of different projects and how this level of research and documentation and just talking and processing things together will hopefully be as kind of a similar thing to some of the Anti Fascist research that I've participated in and done. And it's not necessarily like about breaking into someone's computer and finding Secret Files somewhere, it's more about just documenting relationships, understanding patterns, seeing where the money comes in and out and who's controlling what. And so I think a lot of that is relevant to this kind of work and just finding out, like, who's related to who, who's telling who what to do, who's like, who's funding, who, all that kind of stuff, to find out what their biases are, who they're working for, and on behalf of, so that we can either interrupt it or support it, right? Because I assume there's somebody doing good work somewhere. So if we find those people, we will absolutely tell you about them and talk to them. Up until then we'll probably keep talking about the people that are fucking everything up. Piper 20:37 You've taught me a lot about the how the ways that we've been talking about politics relate to Anti Fascist work, like you've taught me a lot about the tools you use. And I think one that I noticed was really absent from media coverage the anti fascists always do is they just every time someone comes up, they remind you who they are, and the nefarious things they've been up to the seedy characters, they hang out with something that's completely absent from coverage of say, someone like Sam Adams, who is now back in office after he is a sexual predator. Like everybody knows he is he's back in office, and almost none of the coverage ever brings that up. I mean, it just wouldn't happen. If you were like, talking about joey Gibson or something, you, the media of course... Josh 21:29 know, it's funny, cuz like, well, it's the same thing, right? Literally what you're what you want from, or what I want from news coverage is give me the perspective, I don't have give me the extra detail or whatever. I don't necessarily need something well written, Piper 21:41 like you're supposed to be tracking this stuff, Josh 21:43 a list would be fine. Piper 21:44 Yeah, Josh 21:44 I just want you to catalog it right? I think in a perfect world, I would be paying attention to other stuff. Like I would be able to do that. And like the existing news media apparatus would be connecting the dots for us. The problem is, to say it's a conspiracy is wrong, because that would be a hidden thing. And a secret thing. This is just very public, like all of these people are interconnected, related, marrying each other, working with each other funding each other. And it's very, very public. It's literally Google-able, I have so many fun things to talk about in the future, I cannot wait until I'm going to get some I'm learning like, because there's definitely I want to do more research, like, you know, documenting some hate preacher from Vancouver, not really a big deal. This guy says a bunch of queer phobic stuff, he's a doofus, here are some clips of him saying horrible things. In the reverse, what I'm trying to document now is like, oh, this person is funded by this person who is married to this person who works with this other person. And all of those people are, you know, at some level private individuals that I don't necessarily want to put on blast for being far-right hate preachers, right. But I do need to find some way to document their relationships and how they are enabling abuses of power. And so I think that's, that translation is still something I'm working on. And I've already made some cool and terrible mistakes. But I'm hoping I'm hoping to find some better equilibrium there. And like, we've got this project, and I've got some video projects I'm working on that, like will hopefully help me flesh this out. But yeah, it's definitely about connecting the dots for people documenting, researching. And like, you know, I think that's all of Portland from the left. I don't know, I don't know that it goes beyond that for this project. Piper 23:28 So local media not only doesn't really spend time kind of giving the kind of background and connections that we are focused on for just power players in town, but also they tend to have just a layer of framing that we don't agree with. And so that's why explicitly we're called Portland from the left because we are explicitly not having sort of the status quo framing that typical capitalist media has. So we are definitely stripping out just like the default pro business stance, and stripping out sort of like the default trust of things like cops say, or something like that. Just sort of like journalistic norms that media outlets in Portland as well as most other places sort of tend to have. Josh 24:15 Yeah, and I think it's important to say that, also as a segue into saying that, like, we're not defining ourselves as the the Portland left or like, even defining what the left might be, we're saying, we are somewhere over here on the left. And that's like what we're we're talking about things from that perspective, that's the framing. And a lot of it like you said, it's just because all all of the stories the sea of information about Portland that's published, is all pro business, you know, at least vaguely and pro let's call it establishment politics or like existing political structure, providing alternate framings for the existing stories and to the existing topics and stuff I think is like just very, very important to me. And really a key part of like what we're doing here and like what the ongoing process is about Along with that, I wrote down avoiding money, which I think if you look at my career trajectory, you'd call it avoiding money, but what I meant when I wrote down avoiding money was mostly that, like, we're self funded. And it costs are very small, it's like 12 or $15 a month or something. And I plan to do that as long as we can indefinitely maybe with with the goal of not being controlled by a desire for growth, or new Patreon subscribers, or whatever, so that we could just talk about the topics at hand with as much of a neutral neutral lens isn't quite right, because I'm saying a lens of our politics. But we also don't want it to be informed by a desire for growth. So So part of the joking about anti growth stuff and don't listen, our podcast and whatever, of course, we're publishing something, we want you to listen to it, but like marketing it and then caring about its growth, I think would frame our heads the wrong way. Yeah, because like, great if it has more Twitter followers than Rene Gonzalez or whatever as a joke, but like, you know, we don't necessarily want lots and lots of people to listen to Portland from the left, we want lots and lots of people to start their own shows, and podcasts and projects and blogs, and whatever. Like the goal is write your own blog, the goal is not listen to our podcast. Piper 26:25 And like when we started, we were like, okay, like, what would it be like to be, you know, successful here? And it's like, well, you know, if only like, our significant others were listening, probably we wouldn't do it anymore. But we were like, twenty people regularly listen, like, that's cool. That's worth it. Josh 26:39 That's relevant to that, like when we first published the podcast, it did much better than we anticipated. And also, I went out of my way, from a technical perspective to remove the ability to track stuff. And so we only had like iTunes and Spotify numbers. But that gave us enough to figure out that there's like 200 or so people listening maybe on the last episode. And that was like, way more than my movie review podcast I did for like years. And way more than we expected to listen to it. So we were already, like, have met our goals, and we're fine for listeners. We're good. Piper 27:12 that's enough. That's enough people. Josh 27:13 No need to spread the show. Piper 27:21 I feel like we haven't quite made fun of ourselves enough because like, we are still doing a podcast, which like has to have like a little bit of egotism in it. Right? Like, yeah, well, while like, I'm not really interested in you know? Really, honestly, honestly, why are following me on Twitter? But, but, um, Josh 27:48 but you have a Twitter, Piper 27:49 you know, I I do have to think that people aren't annoyed by hearing me talk I guess to be Josh 28:00 is this you making fun of yourself? Piper 28:04 recording [laughing] and put it on the internet Josh 28:08 it's embarrassing to make a podcast, it's very embarrassing. It's so like, in order, let's just go over this. So in order to make this podcast Piper and I have to schedule a phone call that takes maybe have to decide what to talk about that take some more texts. And then we hang out for like an hour and talk about our feelings. And then we go get drinks or something. And then we come back and record for like another hour, sometimes two hours. And then I edit that for like four or five hours, it takes like four or five hours to edit every episode. And then we Piper listens to it and adds a transcription. So that's probably another hour or so or however long it takes to do that. Depending on the length of the episode, which is sometimes as much as two hours. So like, this is an incredible amount of effort put in it's very embarrassing. It's like we're doing all of that in order to put out our political ideas. That's an embarrassing thing. I am 39 years old, I have other things to do. My child is hungry. It is that's not true. I fed him dinner already. It's 920. But like, you know, we have other things we could be doing productive things Piper 29:09 whenever. My mom was like, I listened to your podcast, and I was like, I don't I was just like, Mom, I don't really think it'll make any sense. Like I won't give enough context for you to know what I'm talking about. And you know what she did anyway? And that's very nice. Josh 29:27 And her feedback was that you should less? Sorry, Mom, my mom's dead. So not saying mom, although if my mom was alive, she would have said the same thing. Yeah, she said I loved it. Can you swear less? Piper 29:40 She she said that? You know, depending on my audience, and then I was like, Well, Mom, that's exactly the point. Josh 29:49 Well, part part of the point is swearing and not being so professional and not like taking it seriously but not thinking of it as important is you know, you guys take the piss right, you got to make fun of yourself a little bit and like Piper 30:03 take the piss? Did you just make Josh 30:04 that up? Isn't that no, that's Piper 30:06 it. I don't have any idioms. Josh 30:08 I think that's a British idiom. I'm crossing languages, not crossing language crossing nation barriers. People should make fun of us more, Piper 30:16 honestly. Yeah. Josh 30:17 it's silly to have a podcast. I mean, also, just to mention, if you wanted me to make fun of podcasters more, just wait a few minutes. Keep listening. You might get there. Piper 30:29 I would like someone listening. If there's anyone listening that is really doesn't like this or doesn't like my ideas or, you know, please write a negative review because the only negative review I got was not very good. And I would like a higher quality negative review. Josh 30:45 If you are an enemy of the pod. If you're someone that does not like us does not like our ideas, Piper 30:50 even if you like our ideas, but you just don't like me personally. Josh 30:54 Fair enough. Fair enough. Could you please we're I guess we're asking for negative reviews. Here's here's the one we got from RHisajokethree on October 25 2021, which we recently found out about and I was so excited about I pinned it to our Twitter profile and probably won't take it down for very long. So it starts it says Nah, that's the title. Nah, one star. We didn't get zero stars. Piper 31:16 Can you give zero stars? Josh 31:18 I don't know. I don't I've never reviewed a podcast I'm not that fucking nerdy. That's not sure I probably reviewed a bunch. So let me read it to you: "Short on facts and full of misrepresentations not even remotely objective. Look these two up on Twitter to see what kinds of people they are. Piper even got banned from next door for one year because she could not stop being mean to neighbors." Can you believe that? Why can't you stop being mean to neighbors Piper? Piper 31:52 I don't know. I have no idea. It's an affliction. Josh 32:00 The idea that people don't like our podcast is very satisfying to me. To friends, that's our holiday special episode. Thanks for listening to such an indulgent thing where we talked about ourselves a lot. We do not plan on doing that often. I love to talk about myself with Piper hates it. So that's where the balance comes from. Piper 32:18 Thank you for listening to our podcast. I like some of you. Some of you I like a lot. And I really please do leave a review. Or just like tell us what you think just directly about our ideas. Because our podcast is sort of a learning project. That's a huge part of it and I want to learn from all of you. So negative reviews positive reviews, just send me a message on Twitter and send compliments to Josh and send criticism to Piper Josh 32:49 Yeah, I can only take the compliments so as long as the criticism is filtered through you, Piper if you're if you're like Josh, someone said this and they suck, but maybe we'll listen to it. Then it would be like I'm much I need a little I'm still need a filter. I'm a gentle flower. Piper 33:06 Yeah. I like when people are mean to me because I'm a fighter. Josh 33:09 And as a special treat. Because we love you so much. Here is a song I wrote making fun of podcasters like us thanks for listening. Unknown Speaker 33:20 Whoa, whoa, go and grab your gas mask. Whoa, whoa, have you seen my vape? Whoa, whoa, gotta film this trash can. Whoa, whoa. Enemies of the state. This is a song podcasters of the uprising. How's your Patreon? Are the advertisers' checks still clearing? Whoa, whoa, go and grab your gas mask. Whoa, whoa, have you seen my vape? Whoa, whoa standing on the snack van. Whoa, whoa. Enemies of the state. this is a song for the streamers and the do-nothings. what's that new grift you're on? Did I see your footage at my friend's hearing? woah woah, this is a song, for the podcasters of the uprising. [overlapping repeated lyrics] Transcribed by https://otter.ai